Spaghetti westerns are Italian westerns. If it’s not Italian and/or a western, it’s not a spaghetti western.
Bad Lt I think you are in need of SEVERE LEARNING and BOOK STUDYING of the FACTS :
There is NO “Italian Western” as you tried to suggest incorrectly ! ???
I know the SWDB says “top 20 essential Italian Westerns” on its front pages but we
NEED to USE our COMMON SENSE and KNOWLEDGE of REALITY. :
“Italian Western” is in fact nearly always a CO-PRODUCTION with OTHER Europeans !
-
FISTFUL OF DOLLARS 64 is a “Italian-German-Spanish production” page 114
Spaghetti Westerns by Thomas Weisser.Do you therefore want to EXCLUDE Fistful Of Dollars 64 Bad Lt ???
IMDB The worlds biggest MOVIE Database has under
Keyword “spaghetti westerns” 266 Westerns that include SPANISH/GERMAN/YUGAnyway your “argument” is totally false because most “Italian” Westerns were as
FISTFUL OF DOLLARS a CO-PRODUCTION with other Europeans : Spain/Ger/Yug etc -
MERCENARY 68 Franco Nero , Giovanna Ralli Is described page 216 Italy/Spain
GREAT SILENCE 68 is a Italy/France Production Adelphia(it)/Les Films Corona(Fr).
If we used your “logic” Bad Lt then MOST of everybody’s TOP 20 would be “illegal”.
Anyway we need to be as WIDE RANGING and INCLUSIVE: Spaghetti / EURO WESTERN
Let us get on with the business of PRAISING and INCLUDING Films not Excluding 
THOMAS WEISSER BOOK “Spaghetti Westerns” Comprehensive Illustrated Filmog.
This is the standard REFERENCE WORK covers 558 SPAGHETTI WESTERNS
“made throughout Europe” INCLUDES CORRECTLY Italy/Spain/France/Germany/Yugo
The BOOK is researched Not only By Weisser but by Craig Ledbetter (ETC), Tom Betts
and a whole team of experts. It has (as all reference books have) some errors but
overall it serves as the Spaghetti Westerns Reference Work.
I think this was discussed through a long time ago in some thread.
In short:
Westerns > Euro Westerns > Spaghetti Westerns.
There are a few titles that sure are hard to decide if they are spaghettis or not, but those in SD:s list belong to the category: Euro. Not spaghetti.
No Veda if you read my previous posting you will see that most/all of the
so called “Italian Westerns” were co productions with 1 or more France/Ger/Spain/Yugo
If you and Bad Lt want to EXCLUDE Fistful of Dollars 64 and Mercenary 68 then you
will RUIN and make a nonsense of EVERYBODY’s TOP 20 lists.
Let us get on with the business of praising, including and commenting on Spaghettis now
I accepted the USA westerns “argument” , I have shown this latest “italian western”
“argument” to be false and incorrect :-* so now I will get on with my TOP 21-40 
Oh man. Please read the thread about the definition of a Spaghetti Western. I think it is you who is going to have to make changes to your top-20 list… (again)
SD, don’t be condescending. There is really no need. Besides that, YOU are wrong. I am not.
Spaghetti equals Italian
Western means Western
Oh Man you go away and READ the BOOKS / THE IMDB and the FILM FACTS.
A “thread” on any forum is NOT proof of anything CHECK THE FACTS and ARGUMENTS.
If you still want to be stubborn then YOU go and tell Sebastian and the Staff :
“sorry my name is Veda and FISTFUL OF DOLLARs 64, MERCENARY 68 and TGS 68
are NOT Italian Westerns so they will need to BE REMOVED from any TOP 20” ???
If you want to show yourself up like that DO IT if not please SHUT Up and LEARN. ???
The FACTS are in the previous postings and in the REFERENCE WORKS/IMDB etc
GO away and check/learn…thanks >:(
“spaghetti equals Italian” you say Bad Lt ??
I have already analysed, discussed, exposed the falsehood and incorectness behind
your “allegations”.
As I said if you want “Only Italian” Bad Lt.
You will need to REMOVE Fistful of Dollars 64, Mercenary 68, TGS 68 and many /most
other TOP 20 picks that are already in everybody’s lists.
Then maybe you can think of yourself “as right” but all you will have is a list TOP 5 >:(
My arguments have been self evident.
I will Post my Top 21-40 soon and those in charge can make of it what they will.
I am not fighting a WAR here…just posting a TOP 20 and a Top 21-40.
Ok.
-
The topic here is “OUR OFFICIAL TOP-20”, so I think it is important to use the definition agreed on this forum.
-
I have not said that those titles should be removed. I have not said that they are Italian only. I have not said that Spaghetti Western = Italian only western.
Please read the thread. I think there are not really facts here on this subject. Only different definitions.
And please do not write every other word in CAPITAL letters because it is really annoying to read. They don’t write books like that and they don’t use punctuation like that in your holy IMDB either.
Sartana Django calm dawn. The ‘normal’ definition of a spaghetti western is that it is at least Italian co-produced hence the westerns you mentioned as being in danger of removal really aren’t. It’s as simple as that.
I myself also treat the Spanish-(co)produced westerns as ‘spaghetti’ but that’s just me 
Veda if you READ BACK you will see that:
Bad Lt said clearly “spaghetti westerns”[quote=“SARTANA DJANGO, post:382, topic:190”]Bad Lt said “spaghetti westerns are Italian westerns” that means ONLY Italian so
I then corrected him and the argument/facts continued as you see below.
Bad Lt I think you are in need of SEVERE LEARNING and BOOK STUDYING of the FACTS :
There is NO “Italian Western” as you tried to suggest incorrectly ! ???
I know the SWDB says “top 20 essential Italian Westerns” on its front pages but we
NEED to USE our COMMON SENSE and KNOWLEDGE of REALITY. :
“Italian Western” is in fact nearly always a CO-PRODUCTION with OTHER Europeans !
-
FISTFUL OF DOLLARS 64 is a “Italian-German-Spanish production” page 114
Spaghetti Westerns by Thomas Weisser.Do you therefore want to EXCLUDE Fistful Of Dollars 64 Bad Lt ???
IMDB The worlds biggest MOVIE Database has under
Keyword “spaghetti westerns” 266 Westerns that include SPANISH/GERMAN/YUGAnyway your “argument” is totally false because most “Italian” Westerns were as
FISTFUL OF DOLLARS a CO-PRODUCTION with other Europeans : Spain/Ger/Yug etc -
MERCENARY 68 Franco Nero , Giovanna Ralli Is described page 216 Italy/Spain
GREAT SILENCE 68 is a Italy/France Production Adelphia(it)/Les Films Corona(Fr).
If we used your “logic” Bad Lt then MOST of everybody’s TOP 20 would be “illegal”.
Anyway we need to be as WIDE RANGING and INCLUSIVE: Spaghetti / EURO WESTERN
Let us get on with the business of PRAISING and INCLUDING Films not Excluding :’(
THOMAS WEISSER BOOK “Spaghetti Westerns” Comprehensive Illustrated Filmog.
This is the standard REFERENCE WORK covers 558 SPAGHETTI WESTERNS
"made throughout Europe" INCLUDES CORRECTLY Italy/Spain/France/Germany/Yugo
The BOOK is researched Not only By Weisser but by Craig Ledbetter (ETC), Tom Betts
and a whole team of experts. It has (as all reference books have) some errors but
overall it serves as the Spaghetti Westerns Reference Work.[/quote]
Now Veda please SCROLL BACK and see how the argument developed.
Also I am annoyed at your malicious criticism ??? I will post and use the functions
and punctuation as I deem necessary to highlight or prove my points or highlight.
It is not your business , You worry about how you write your posts.
It is important to know how to have a conversation. It is also important to know how to behave on a public message board. Imagine us in a room having conversation. If you shouted every other word, it would be really annoying. Same goes here. Your points will be noticed far better without those capital letters. It only irritates other people.
And it was you who clearly attacked me. It was you who put words in my mouth. It was you who told me to go away etc.
I didn’t do any of those. I only corrected the false accusations you made.
So I think it is you who is being malicious here.
I think that if you don’t care about the definition of a Spaghetti Western defined on this forum, you shouldn’t really be taking part to this vote.
Also at this point I’d like to know. Did you read the thread?
Veda
You intervened on a discussion where I corrected Bad Lt when he said
“spaghetti westerns are Italian Westerns”
Based on his statement I then provided arguments, facts, references showing
that nearly all “italian” were in fact EUROPEAN Co-Productions.
I then took Bad Lt “argument” to its logical conclusion that he was therefore
EXCLUDING films like Fistful of $, Mercenary and TGS and many more.
You were not part of a contributor but decided to BUTT In against me as it suited you.
I therefore asked you to “go away” and read the postings, the arguments, the facts
I also asked you politely to worry about your postings and not tell me how to write.
At the end of all this attacking me and showing malice towards me you and others
are NOW AGREEING WITH ME and saying that nothing needs to come off the Top 20.
And you are saying YES the films are nearly ALL co-productions and nothing was
pure Italian or pure Spanish or pure German etc.
Now my question is : WHY did you Bad Lt, Veda and others need to
ATTACK ME without reason only to then backtrack and wet/fall over yourselves ?
AGREE with what I have been saying for over 2 hours and in numerous posts ??
If any of you want to insist on this “italian only” UTTER FALSEHOOD you will be shown
further evidence facts that even GERMAN Westerns like Karl May Stewart Granger/
Lex Barker Films had some Italian co production/finances involved. So they QUALIFY.
Why then all the utter nonsense and trying to exclude films from the Top 20 ?? ???
Veda / Bad Lt a good proverb says if you know little or are ignorant SILENCE is good.
As I said my TOP 20 is absolutely correct and conforms to the Spaghetti criteria.
I may add a TOp 21-40 later and NOTHING CHANGES as I have already removed USA.
[quote=“SARTANA DJANGO, post:387, topic:190”]Oh Man you go away and READ the BOOKS / THE IMDB and the FILM FACTS.
A “thread” on any forum is NOT proof of anything CHECK THE FACTS and ARGUMENTS.
If you still want to be stubborn then YOU go and tell Sebastian and the Staff :
“sorry my name is Veda and FISTFUL OF DOLLARs 64, MERCENARY 68 and TGS 68
are NOT Italian Westerns so they will need to BE REMOVED from any TOP 20” ???
If you want to show yourself up like that DO IT if not please SHUT Up and LEARN. ???
The FACTS are in the previous postings and in the REFERENCE WORKS/IMDB etc
GO away and check/learn…thanks >:([/quote]
A fistful of dollars is (part) Italian. The same goes for The Mercenary etc. Therefore they are spaghetti westerns. This cannot be said of the Winnetou movies or Hang 'Em High. Of course there are grey areas, like Arde baby arde, but the Winnetou movies are not. You trying to correct me as if i were a schoolboy is laughable. For a self proclaimed expert you know very little. As I recollect you called Watch out we’re mad a spaghetti western. And please don’t use that condescending tone to me again. It’s uncalled for. Furthermore, don’t tell me what to do. I already have a girlfriend.
Ah now Bad Lt you say “part italian” but earlier you said “sws are Italian westerns” !
I then corrected you and showed you evidence of Fistful of $, Mercenary, TGS all
being Co-Productions. That means Part( Italian/french/Spanish/German/Yugo etc).
Now you agree after 2 hours of arguing and attacking me that “part Italian” is OK.
You are forced to agree as otherwide you and Vera would be seen as absolute
“clowns” as your “arguments” would lead to REMOVAL of Fistful Of $/Mercenary etc.
The same goes for what apparently were Winnetou “German Films” , they were in fact
co productions with involvement/money/production from other Euro countries >
We could be here all night arguing was it Italian Money, some Usa Dollars, Francs ??
Therefore again as I said many posts ago this is a grey area/controversial/difficult
Therefore is is better/wiser to INCLUDE FILMS In and not seek to exclude them.
“condescending” where I have tried to take your points and see the facts/truth etc.
When I said about “watch out we re mad” I was in fun looking for abysmal SW
“comedies” and “slapstick” as worse ever Sw films…they may not even be sw but BAD
You Bad Lt on the other hand show poor judgement and ethics because you pretend
to judge if DeNiro/Pacino/Bogart are “wooden” or “lousy actors” but then are happy
to judge ANTHONY STEFFEN by allowing yourself to watch SWs where you have
“foreign dialogue” and you Bad Lt cannot understand 1 word of what is being said.
You CANNOT EVER make a “judgement” if you cannot understand what the words are.
What you just looking at the pictures in between cups of coffee ?? ??? >:(
Then you emerge and say “that Anthony Steffen hes made dozens of succesful, money
making Spaghettis and is a leading sought after man but you know what hes wooden”
NONSENSE.
I am happy you have a “bossy” girlfriend who tells you “what to do” and I leave that
for her, all I am doing is analysing and discussing your postings and statements :
Anyway if I am given the chance I will post my Top 21-40 and if anybody wants to
“count” them in please do if not they are still my TOP 21-40. Thanks
No. I am not agreeing you. I still think that you have listed some eurowesterns which don’t fit into the spaghetti western definition discussed on this forum and therefore should be replaced. And I repeat: It is relevant whose criteria of a spaghetti western you use here. In this vote it should be one on this forum because the topic says “OUR OFFICIAL TOP-20”.
:’( Ok Veda I guess I will take a chance that 1 or 2 of my Top 20 will not be counted :o
I know what the forum asks and I have quoted it earlier but as the criteria/films are
so confusing then I assumed common sense and a wide definition would do.
Did you see Bad Lt after he wanted “italian only” now he says “part Italian” etc etc 
I said all that in the 1st postings and gave examples, arguments, facts etc. dear me :o
Like Thomas WEISSER he says 558 Spaghetti Westerns that should be good for all.
I don’t know if he (Bad Lt) really meant that spaghettis are italian only in the first place. I think he meant that a western could not be called spaghetti unless there is no Italy involved somehow. Maybe you just misunderstood him. As you know, this forum is a part of the site http://www.spaghetti-western.net/ which lists those grey area westerns with a stamp “This film does not fit everyone’s description of a Spaghetti Western. As a Eurowestern, it was listed for completeness.” But I think this vote excluded those non-genuine-spaghettis.
As said many times. There is really no truth here but I myself want to exclude those grey area westerns from spaghettis because the word spaghetti is very very italian and therefore to call a movie spaghetti western, italian involvement in the movie should be clear.
This is a senseless discussion.
Everybody has his own definition what a SW is and which films are not. And there were non SWs in other lists too (The Quick and the Dead, El Topo, and for my definition also Viva Maria, which is at best a half western).
Imo the german westerns are so different from SWs that I never would include them,(even if they were made with italian co-production money or shot in spain).
The solely spanish productions on the other hand belong to the genre. They were made in the context of the SW boom and they don’t differ much from their italian counterparts
It’s more tricky with american or british westerns which were shot in Spain and often co-produced by italian and/or spanish companies. Imo it’s a matter of style if they belong to the genre or not. Personally I think that most of these type of films are not SWs, because they used the italian/spanish infrastructure, but the key parts were occupied by american or british personal and they were mostly stylistically orientated on american westerns.
So I also would exclude A Man Called Noon.
But I think everybody has to decide for himself what’s in the list and what’s not.
So SartanaDjango if you think that these 3 films are SWs, these films should be in, but if you think that they are Euro westerns, please remove them (if you like).
[quote=“stanton, post:399, topic:190”]This is a senseless discussion.
Everybody has his own definition what a SW is and which films are not. And there were non SWs in other lists too (The Quick and the Dead, El Topo, and for my definition also Viva Maria, which is at best a half western
But I think everybody has to decide for himself what’s in the list and what’s not.
So SartanaDjango if you think that these 3 films are SWs, these films should be in, but if you think that they are Euro westerns, please remove them (if you like).[/quote]
Thank you Stanton your posting makes quite good sense and is well argued.
I do not think it is good to exclude but to include as I said, but I can see why some
would argue that Spaghetti is primarily Italian…I speak Italian and have a passport :o
But I have other passports too
YES I do consider (and have always done ) the STEWART GRANGER Films /MAN C NOON
as SWs and as such I will leave them in my TOP 20.
Thanks for pointing out that others have had El Topo (mexican !), Quick & the Dead(usa
and other very Unusual SWs, so I was amazed to be attacked and pursued by Bad Lt ???
I think he is upset that I said Deniro/Bogart/Pacino/Streep/Grant were like "ash/willow"
Then I said you need to undertand the language and what an actor is saying to judge
Anyway thanks everybody for a stimulating discussion, I will need to lie down and
take some medicinal coffee or something stronger after that ;D all legal of course.
I hope to have a Top 21-40 posted soon and I will include DJANGO 66 and TGS 68 :o